Sea-doo has been sitting a long time and wont start...

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

c***@gmail.com

2007-01-16 00:22:52 UTC

Hello everyone, I am having some issues with a pair of sea-doo
bombardiers (a 91 and a 96). My girlfriend's dad recently game them to
us as he wasnt using them, and hadnt for about 7 years... Naturally
they will need some, or a lot of maintinance.These boats are in
emaculate condition otherwise, both inside and out...Everyone that has
seen them have been blown away by how clean and new everything looks
inside, so I have had high hopes of getting them out on the water. I
originaly took them to local sea-doo repair shop and they wanted $2000
each for new engines, but that is just waaaayy to much for what these
guys are worth. So Ive decided to see what I can do with them on my
own. That said, I have a relatively limited knowltedge of watercraft,
but a moderate knowltedge of 2 stroke engines and mechanical things in
general. So far I checked the oil and fuel lines, both seemed ok (the
fuel had been drained prior to storage), and checked the battery. The
battery, not suprisingly was dead, so I purchased a new one, and hooked
that up. No here's where I dont know where to go next. I have tried to
start the boats with the new battery and both have the same problem of
cranking slowly, with no sign of actually turning over. The motor
cranks slowly, and consistantly and besides one glimmer of hope in the
beginning, it sounds like the starter is laboring too much to actually
crank fast enoung..The fuel/oil doesnt seem to be the problem (not yet
anyway) as the speed of the cranking isnt even fast enough to get it
going. Any ideas on this situaton?...I'd like to keep the cost down if
at all possible. Thanks!

2007-01-16 01:28:14 UTC

Permalink

OUCH..... You should of pulled the plugs and put a little oil in each
cylinder first before cranking them. Metal doesn't make a good lube.

I would
Pick one unit to play with...
Pull plugs and put a little oil in (better late than never) let them
soak for a while.
Check all the connections on the battery, ground, etc etc.
Grease the zircs with good marine grease (Not sure how many there are
but I would bet 2-4)
Look up the jet and see it the impeller is hitting the sides. (On
Yamahas this is a common issue after sitting due to bimetal issues)

Try to turn it over... is it still slow? If so is the impeller
grinding? is the new battery charged?
Are you getting a spark? Be careful how you test this...
If it turns fast, go ahead and get new plugs and put them in.
Attempt to turn over... Better now? If so, it's time for some fresh gas
and oil and gas filter. Be careful not to spill any... make sure you
air out and clean up after.

If it won't start now, consider rebuilding one of the carbs. The gas
was removed but it probably wasn't pickled before storage and the rubber
is probably shot.

If it still won't start.... repost and hopefully a smarter person will
respond!!!!

Post by c***@gmail.com
Hello everyone, I am having some issues with a pair of sea-doo
bombardiers (a 91 and a 96). My girlfriend's dad recently game them to
us as he wasnt using them, and hadnt for about 7 years... Naturally
they will need some, or a lot of maintinance.These boats are in
emaculate condition otherwise, both inside and out...Everyone that has
seen them have been blown away by how clean and new everything looks
inside, so I have had high hopes of getting them out on the water. I
originaly took them to local sea-doo repair shop and they wanted $2000
each for new engines, but that is just waaaayy to much for what these
guys are worth. So Ive decided to see what I can do with them on my
own. That said, I have a relatively limited knowltedge of watercraft,
but a moderate knowltedge of 2 stroke engines and mechanical things in
general. So far I checked the oil and fuel lines, both seemed ok (the
fuel had been drained prior to storage), and checked the battery. The
battery, not suprisingly was dead, so I purchased a new one, and hooked
that up. No here's where I dont know where to go next. I have tried to
start the boats with the new battery and both have the same problem of
cranking slowly, with no sign of actually turning over. The motor
cranks slowly, and consistantly and besides one glimmer of hope in the
beginning, it sounds like the starter is laboring too much to actually
crank fast enoung..The fuel/oil doesnt seem to be the problem (not yet
anyway) as the speed of the cranking isnt even fast enough to get it
going. Any ideas on this situaton?...I'd like to keep the cost down if
at all possible. Thanks!

c***@gmail.com

2007-01-16 01:43:54 UTC

Permalink

Thanks for the tips Ed....A little more info for you or anyone else
interested; I pulled the plugs and could see some fluid in the cylinder
and tried cranking it without plugs just to see if it was the starter
or the spark or fuel etc etc...The engine turned over easily now and i
recieved a shower of gas/oil mixture on my arms... So Im thinking
before i can start in with investigating the carbs and fuel lines I
would like to know why it cranks so slowly with the plugs in...Im
thinking either this new battery for some reason doesnt have the power
it should or...something else. After finding that the pistons were
moving just fine i replaced the plugs and tried again....This time I
got rapid cranking for about 2 seconds, but no start, then back to the
slow cranking again. So Im at a loss... Any other ideas?

Mr. HPT

2007-01-16 05:01:35 UTC

Permalink

Roll up your sleeves dude, take top end off and do visual inspection.
Pay attention to pistons and cylinder liner. Ther is no other way to go
about it.
You may have inflicted serious damage to top end by attempting to start
engine with dry wall cylinders.
A smart person would take entire unit apart inspect crank, replace seals and
gaskets.
Apparently you are not one of them.
LOL

George Grabowski
HPT Sport USA
WWW.HPT-SPORT.COM

Post by c***@gmail.com
Thanks for the tips Ed....A little more info for you or anyone else
interested; I pulled the plugs and could see some fluid in the cylinder
and tried cranking it without plugs just to see if it was the starter
or the spark or fuel etc etc...The engine turned over easily now and i
recieved a shower of gas/oil mixture on my arms... So Im thinking
before i can start in with investigating the carbs and fuel lines I
would like to know why it cranks so slowly with the plugs in...Im
thinking either this new battery for some reason doesnt have the power
it should or...something else. After finding that the pistons were
moving just fine i replaced the plugs and tried again....This time I
got rapid cranking for about 2 seconds, but no start, then back to the
slow cranking again. So Im at a loss... Any other ideas?

rotortiller

2007-01-16 21:42:27 UTC

Permalink

The reason it likely turned over slowly is due to partial hydraulic lock. It
may have been that the starter needed to be worked at rpm top clean off the
commutator. With the plugs out the shaft flywheel should trun easily by hand
with no ruffness. Turn off the fuel and get a compression tester. Crank the
engine (after you make sure the crankcase and cylinders are purged of
liguid) with the throttle wide open and with both ignition caps off of the
plugs. Record the measurement then squirt a tablespoon or two of oil into
the spark plug hole and do the check again. If you get 125-150 psi as the
lower measurement you are likely good to go. It may be that the machines
were stored correctly and you have good engines, however I would remove the
carbs and check them out with a complete disassembly. The cylinder heads are
easy to pull and this would be advisable.

The only what you can be sure of internal corrosion on the bearings and
crankshaft is to disassemble the engine. However if the compression is good
and visual indicators of the cylinder shows no rust or aluminum
deposits/scores then chances are the rest is fine too provided that was pure
fuel and not water you pumped out the spark plug hole. When you removed the
plug you removed fluid and compression during the turn over purging session,
so in my mind the cylinder and pistons were not bound up. It might be the
fuel is being flooded into the engine as the carb needle valve is not
seating, this is possibly why it happened again.

Stephen

2007-01-17 01:51:26 UTC

Permalink

Did you check the battery connections including the ground? You can try
jumping it to see if it's a bad battery or just needs charging. First,
try jumping the ground from the existing battery to a good ground on the
engine. Then try the red to the starter (MAKE SURE NO GAS FUMES ARE
PRESENT!!!!!!) THEN, if that doesn't fix it, try jumping it to a car
or a different known good battery, going directly to the ground and the
starter. You can also try and jump the solenoid. They can get
corroded over time and cause low V. As the previous poster mentioned,
the starters could be corroded and need some running to clean them.

BTW.. You can get a good-inexpensive compression tester at your local
autoparts store. Follow the directions to avoid damage. You can also
get a spark tester while you are there.

Post by rotortiller
The reason it likely turned over slowly is due to partial hydraulic lock. It
may have been that the starter needed to be worked at rpm top clean off the
commutator. With the plugs out the shaft flywheel should trun easily by hand
with no ruffness. Turn off the fuel and get a compression tester. Crank the
engine (after you make sure the crankcase and cylinders are purged of
liguid) with the throttle wide open and with both ignition caps off of the
plugs. Record the measurement then squirt a tablespoon or two of oil into
the spark plug hole and do the check again. If you get 125-150 psi as the
lower measurement you are likely good to go. It may be that the machines
were stored correctly and you have good engines, however I would remove the
carbs and check them out with a complete disassembly. The cylinder heads are
easy to pull and this would be advisable.
The only what you can be sure of internal corrosion on the bearings and
crankshaft is to disassemble the engine. However if the compression is good
and visual indicators of the cylinder shows no rust or aluminum
deposits/scores then chances are the rest is fine too provided that was pure
fuel and not water you pumped out the spark plug hole. When you removed the
plug you removed fluid and compression during the turn over purging session,
so in my mind the cylinder and pistons were not bound up. It might be the
fuel is being flooded into the engine as the carb needle valve is not
seating, this is possibly why it happened again.
Stephen

Mr. HPT

2007-02-14 11:29:40 UTC

Permalink

Good greef, I would not have you gays work on my lawn mover.
Where did you learn this type of service procedure?
It had to come from Tennessee. LOL
Do not forget to light up cigar during engine cranking test.

George Ski
HPT Sport USA
www.hpt-sport.com

Post by rotortiller
The reason it likely turned over slowly is due to partial hydraulic lock.
It may have been that the starter needed to be worked at rpm top clean off
the commutator. With the plugs out the shaft flywheel should trun easily
by hand with no ruffness. Turn off the fuel and get a compression tester.
Crank the engine (after you make sure the crankcase and cylinders are
purged of liguid) with the throttle wide open and with both ignition caps
off of the plugs. Record the measurement then squirt a tablespoon or two
of oil into the spark plug hole and do the check again. If you get 125-150
psi as the lower measurement you are likely good to go. It may be that the
machines were stored correctly and you have good engines, however I would
remove the carbs and check them out with a complete disassembly. The
cylinder heads are easy to pull and this would be advisable.
The only what you can be sure of internal corrosion on the bearings and
crankshaft is to disassemble the engine. However if the compression is
good and visual indicators of the cylinder shows no rust or aluminum
deposits/scores then chances are the rest is fine too provided that was
pure fuel and not water you pumped out the spark plug hole. When you
removed the plug you removed fluid and compression during the turn over
purging session, so in my mind the cylinder and pistons were not bound up.
It might be the fuel is being flooded into the engine as the carb needle
valve is not seating, this is possibly why it happened again.
Stephen

rotortiller

2007-02-20 22:06:21 UTC

Permalink

George,

The wet dry compression tests the ring to cylinder sealing. If the wet test
shows a notable increase over the dry test then the rings are not sealing
correctly, be it worn rings or piston/cylinder scores. Pretty much standard
workman-technician testing practice with all two cycle piston engines. The
throttle open during the test will give the highest reading and is
recommenned simply because more air will flow into the engine. Pardon me for
trying to help someone diagnose the condition of their engine through a
compression test and suggesting possible reasons as to why it was hard to
turn over while the cylinders and crankcase were flooded. Personally I'd
tear the thing down to the point of looking into the crankcase with
cylinders off but that's just me. If it were corrosion free with tight rod
big ends then at that point I'd take a chance on it being good. Some new
guys do not have the skills, don't want to pull the engine right away nor
own a ring compressor, circlip remover/ piston pin puller. Many guys do not
have tooling for pressure checking crankcase seals, carb pop-off values, let
alone degree wheels, DTI etc. These guys need basic simple tips to decide if
the engine has any potential. Guys like you can ruin a NG and before long
no one posts, they migrate to private fourms with good non- dictatorial
moderators. This forum could use a little help and you are simply counter
productive to that end. There are some knowledgable people trying to help
out here with the sport and what you do is chase them off with insults. Why
would you do such a thing George?

rt

Post by Mr. HPT
Good greef, I would not have you gays work on my lawn mover.
Where did you learn this type of service procedure?
It had to come from Tennessee. LOL
Do not forget to light up cigar during engine cranking test.
George Ski
HPT Sport USA
www.hpt-sport.com

Post by rotortiller
The reason it likely turned over slowly is due to partial hydraulic lock.
It may have been that the starter needed to be worked at rpm top clean
off the commutator. With the plugs out the shaft flywheel should trun
easily by hand with no ruffness. Turn off the fuel and get a compression
tester. Crank the engine (after you make sure the crankcase and cylinders
are purged of liguid) with the throttle wide open and with both ignition
caps off of the plugs. Record the measurement then squirt a tablespoon or
two of oil into the spark plug hole and do the check again. If you get
125-150 psi as the lower measurement you are likely good to go. It may be
that the machines were stored correctly and you have good engines,
however I would remove the carbs and check them out with a complete
disassembly. The cylinder heads are easy to pull and this would be
advisable.
The only what you can be sure of internal corrosion on the bearings and
crankshaft is to disassemble the engine. However if the compression is
good and visual indicators of the cylinder shows no rust or aluminum
deposits/scores then chances are the rest is fine too provided that was
pure fuel and not water you pumped out the spark plug hole. When you
removed the plug you removed fluid and compression during the turn over
purging session, so in my mind the cylinder and pistons were not bound
up. It might be the fuel is being flooded into the engine as the carb
needle valve is not seating, this is possibly why it happened again.
Stephen